Problem with spark

godsmackfan · Problem with spark

Alright well i bought the bike from a friend for 100 bucks. Had to buy a battery for it and completely clean out the carbs. I know some about the bike but mostly from the shop manual i got off of ebay. Problem is i can't get it started. All factory wiring and nothing has been messed with.

I replaced all 3 spark plug wires with some i got at autozone. I'm sure this is part of my problem as i just cut the end off that doesn't connect to the spark plugs and jammed it down the coil hole. The factory kawa wires looked to have been done teh same way so i assumed tthats what i was supposed to do.

I've also taken the points cover off. It seems the day before i changed the wires i had a strong bluish whitish spark from the C point. From what my dad said he could see anything from L or R. Before i changed the wires it would sorta run for like a second or two. Coils test good with a multimeter so since you guys know much more about this thing than me if you could help in any way. I'd love to rock out this old thing.

By the way i've also changed all the fluids including the front forks.

godsmackfan

sorry, its a '74 S1-B 250. Or whatever the hell the bike is called. I know its not a KH cause that wasn't until 76. So i guess its a Mach 1 S1-B?

ståle

Hey! Good to see you found the way over (I was the one who gave you the link over at beartooth). Just hang on, and I'm sure someone will reply to your question (I hope so, anyway :D )

The Wolfman

The wires actually screw into the coils.

Try that then get back to us, I'm not convinced that is the only problem. :thumright:

kas750 · Re: Problem with spark

simonh

godsmackfan

i thought the caps just screwed on to the coils. My original wires had a sleeve that kinda shoved them into the coils. Here's a few pics of the bike.

But the word i meant to say was condensors. I get no spark from two of the points. So my guess is something down there. I would think i would have to replace the points as all they are is just a surface for a spark but maybe i'm wrong. What do you guys think?

and here's the pics:

had to do a bit of cleaning up here

g6mow

The bike looks all there, my favorite sort of project. :oops: :oops:

But going off the paintwork its an S1C and not an S1B

kas750

looks like you've got yourself a bargain! :thumright:

The Wolfman

Yep, another one that needs some love.

Getting a spark at the points is no yardstick, you need to measure the voltage on them, when they are closed it should be zero, and approx 12v when they are open, my guess would be that the two (non sparking ones) will be zero all the time.

If so then you need the tank off and check the voltage on the connections to the coils under there, without disconnecting them if possible.

All yellows should be 12v and the Green, Blue and Black should be zero when their points are closed and 12 when the points are open. :thumright:

godsmackfan

i'll try that, i did already check out the coils and there's power to them and power at the points when they are open. I also noticed that i need no resistance wires like on a tractor or lawn mower. I tried using regular car wires and i think thats another big problem.

I had considered swtiching over to some mazda coils but i'm not positive that would fix my problem. I just don't like jamming a wire down on a spike hoping that its making contact. With a car coil there's already a metal contact bucket that a spark connector slips into. Just seems easier. Anyone done this or tried it?

The Wolfman

Unless it has been torn out, there should be a sharp spiral spike in the end of the coil, it will stop you putting anything solid in there, it's designed to screw into the soft plastic of the cable and the central conductor.

?? don't understand your concerns, it's a much more secure and reliable connection than an unrestrained cable.

I had orange car HT leads on my S1 for donkeys years no problem.

simonh

are they copper cored ht leads or not? i think thats the problem ,the majority of auto ht leads are no longer copper cored, its a wierd silicone to copper terminal.

godsmackfan

alright, went to tractor supply and got some copper core wires. They look identical to my old wires. Put them on, and natually nothing happened :smt102

i used some plies to help shove the wire in and it definitly hits the spike. I then tried to use a spark plug tester and no spark still. I'm so ready to just sell the bike and forget about it. I don't know why the hell it won't start. Carbs are cleaned out and the ignition still seems to be working right. But no sparks at the points except for the C cylinder as usual. Any other ideas wtf is wrong with this thing. I'm so frusterated now.

godsmackfan

also the C point doesn't always spark. Its like intermitant. Some times it sparks a lot and then doesn't for a lot of kicks and sparks once or twice and so on and so on....

godsmackfan

sorry to triple post but do you have a pic of the inside of one of those coils?

I know there's a black spike but i didn't know it was a spiral. It just looks like a spike.

The Wolfman

Tried to photograph it (unsuccessfully) several times, its so far down the hole that it does just look like a spike.

But OK spike or spiral, take your new wires out and put a piece of bare wire inside and see if that sparks to - anywhere on the frame or engine, if it does then it's certainly the car HT leads giving you the trouble.

You can't judge the operation of the points by them sparking, the bottom line is that they shouldn't, but in practice they might.

godsmackfan

i'll give that a whirl tonight, I have enoug of the extra copper core wiring that i could ground it to the head.

godsmackfan

tried and no spark. Kill swtich tests good, ignition swtich test good. Yellow wires on coil were backwards so i wired them to the negative and the blue, green, and black wires to the positive sides of the coils. Changed gap, and then noticed a point fell out. I also noticed the top cylinder the tip of teh point has also fallen out. There's still a little cap there but the contact itself just fell out. So maybe i need new points. If that doesn't do it i don't know what will. We spent about 2 hours going over the wiring of the bike and everything is doing what it should and working the way it should.

My neutral light i was able to fix, the screw must have broken at some point so some slight alteration to the plastic insert and made the screw go down more. Neutral light works now :)

However it tried to run once when the top piece was missing from the contact surface so i dont' thnk this would really keep the bike from working. I don't know though, whole situation pisses me off. I've had the bike easily for a month now, finally got a key set made and got a battery, for 2 weeks now i've been trying to start the mofo.... i'm at my wits end.

The Wolfman

Chill out, its only a bike, it worked once it'll live again. :thumright:

HIGGSPEED

The yellow wires are supposed to go to the positive side of the coil not the negative. You need to ditch the points and condensers and buy a new set. They are readily available and cost hardly anything in the scheme of things. I know you are frustrated with it, but you need to spend a bit of money on it before you can expect a result from a 30 year old bit of machinery. If you lived over here , you would have plenty of volunteers to come round and help. Keep trying and keep posting. You will get there and the result will put a smile on your face

:thumright:
Higgsy

godsmackfan

i thought the yellow wires were supposed to be positive. They all go back to a weird box by the battery. I dnk't know what it is but i'm sure it controls coil charging. The condensors seem to be checking out ok but i have find a deal online as nobody has them. My local dealer said the condensors were 30 bucks a piece. I didn't give a shit less what the points were. Mostly cause the guy either didn't know what i wanted or couldn't hear me on the phone...............

g6mow

www.kawasakitripleparts.com

condensors 6 GBP each
points 6 GBP each

:thumright:

The Wolfman

'a weird box by the battery'? :shock:

g6mow

simonh

godsmackfan

one has fins where all 3 yellow wires, a power wire from the battery, and a ground run into. The other is a silver box where from the yellow wires there's three that split off and go into it. My manual doesn't really mention either. I think it does actually there's just no pictures of wtf it looks like.

Also i'm in the us so i'm sure shipping for those parts from the UK would be rediculous. Nobody really sells anything for it here, its either eBay or find a forum that just happens to have parts i can use.

godsmackfan

http://www.kawasakitripleparts.co...im/57212/my-kh250-project-035.jpg

here's one that i was talking about.

godsmackfan

i take it back, this website is great. Thanks for the link. Heck i might even get a few new signal stems if i get the bike running.

HIGGSPEED

This has got to be a wind up :?

godsmackfan

wind up?

Problem with spark

Re: Problem with spark